Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You and I worked on a project in Mexico and remember the day that we were numbering rocks and I think we moved like, I don't know, it was a hundred boulders or something crazy. And I was your sous chef in the kitchen and I was numbering all of the rocks. But I remember watching you placing these rocks as we started to build this fantastic garden. It wasn't just like plopping the rock down in the soil, but it was turning it and caressing it in a way that the rock had this full art expression. You reminded me of a conductor of his symphony and the rocks were your instruments and it just was this really magnificent transmission to watch your your genius and your intuition and to highlight. I've never seen anyone highlight rocks the way that you did in that garden. It was, it was beautiful.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Welcome to Came Here to Love, a podcast hosted by me, Liz Logan where we explore heart centered convers with visionary leaders from around the world. This podcast is a journey into wisdom, a path to transformation and an invitation to catch the highest vibration of all love elevating our lives and connecting us more deeply to ourselves and the world around us. Our mission is simple to live with passion, align with purpose and spread more love. In each episode we invite compassionate leaders to share insights, personal breakthroughs, and heart inspired ideas that impact change not only in our own lives, but also in our communities and the world beyond. Whether you're seeking new perspectives, deeper connection, or a sense of purpose, Came Here to Love offers transformative insights that inspire, enlighten and remind us all why we're here.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: To love hi. Today I sit down with Eric Nagelman, who was born in Santa Barbara to a modest family with nine siblings. He was the rebellious one of the group, but was fortunate to fall in love with plants and nature at a very early age. School didn't really work well for him and instead of attending, he spent much of his time reading about plants. His first gardening job was at age 11 and he worked for A$50 cents an hour. Later he became a gardener and he worked for some of the most remarkable people in Santa Barbara, including Wright Ludington, Margaret Mallory Dam, Judith Anderson and Paige Rentz. He lived and worked at many of these larger estates around including Casa del Hero and later won a private award. He slowly emerged his design gardens into other areas outside of Santa Barbara including la, and then places further Hong Kong, throughout Mexico and Italy, and of course around the U.S. one of the highlights of his career was to be asked to do the gardens of Lotus Land in Santa Barbara, which he did and also created The Dunlap cactus garden, the Patamon and insectary garden, as well as many small inclusions. He has had a brilliant career in landscape architect design. His next plan was to do tropical gardens in Mexico. And he left his life in Santa Barbara and found a new life in New Mexico, where he currently lives and pursuing other interests including traveling, playing the piano, and he just finished a house that he built. He walks two to three hours every day in nature looking for wildflowers and incorporates all of this design in his eight acres of land that he's focused on native plants. He is a genius when it comes to working with nature and with native plants and really creating and curating designs that open the soul and the senses. I am so happy to be sitting down with Eric Nagelman and I welcome him to came here to love. How are you?
[00:03:49] Speaker C: I'm great.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: How are all your travels?
[00:03:52] Speaker C: Oh my God. Life changing. Unbelievable. It was one of the best trips I've ever taken. Amazing I've ever taken in two months. And every day was just jam packed, you know, going here and flying there and doing this and I mean, it was amazing. You know, little moments keep coming back to mind. Like I remember driving somewhere in India, out in the middle of nowhere and we stopped for gas and all of a sudden all these workers, these young guys were like crowded all around me and I'm like, hello. And this happens pretty frequently. And I mentioned something to my guide and he said, you know, a lot of these people have never seen a white person before.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Wow.
[00:04:31] Speaker C: That's kind of stumbling.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what went for me.
[00:04:34] Speaker C: I went from staying in palaces where someone would come at 4:00 to wash my feet, to being up in immigrant tribes where there's like three tribes and 12 villages up, way up in the mountains in Laos and oh my God, you know, dirt floors and they eat anything that moves and oh my God, it's just. It's just so incredible. Things a man survives, you know. Wow. The world is just magical.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: The world is magical. It's good to get out and see it.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: I ended up unexpectedly doing an eight day road trip through eastern Tibet, which was just unbeliev.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: Not what you were planning, right?
[00:05:14] Speaker C: No, because I was supposed to go to Shanghai and I really didn't want to go back to China. I've never really liked going to China. So anyway, I happened to be in an immigration office and this woman said to me that she's from New York, but she grew up in eastern Tibet. And she said that Drive is so beautiful. I said to my guide and driver, would you be willing to drive me to Laos? Wow. We went from. I mean, just unbelievable landscapes. And you know what's so amazing, Liz, is that the dedication of the people. There'd be people walking on these dirt roads, you know, heavy construction. I mean, just the pits of the world. And they're walking for months to get the lasso to do their rituals. And on the way they're doing prostrations.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:55] Speaker C: In the middle of nowhere. Oh, my God. It's so inspiring.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know, it's also so intentional, you know, it's like, wow, what a beautiful awareness and way to live and connect, you know, Way to live.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: And what was really great too is seeing young people because of, you know, like in the. In the Christian world, it's sort of dissipating and it's mostly older people, but in this culture, the young people are just as enamored as the older people. I'm not personally a religious person, but I just love the rituals and the devotion. It's so beautiful.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: I would say maybe, maybe you're not a religious person, but you're certainly a spiritual person. And I think that's the connection that you have also to nature and to, you know, everything that.
[00:06:43] Speaker C: You know. I was introduced and when I was in. I don't know, somewhere in my trip, I was introduced to animism and I totally. I mean, that's just so me. Because it's all about believing in any living thing is a God. You know, even not. Not non living things are gods.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:07:01] Speaker C: Totally believe that now.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:07:05] Speaker C: I'm calling myself an animist.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: I love that. Well, that's. That's a beautiful thing. And I think that's exactly. I would identify you as that as well. That's perfect.
[00:07:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Really, really perfect. Well, I'm so grateful that you had such a good travel and. And I think, you know, I think the world is our teacher. And it really becomes such a beautiful palette when we can get out of our comfort and go into her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are you.
[00:07:31] Speaker C: A quick story.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:33] Speaker C: I was thinking of this this morning, and I thought you'd appreciate this. So I was in California. I don't know, I don't remember when. It was sometime last year. And I bought these sunglasses because I lost my favorite pair. And I bought these kind of extravagant sunglasses. And I was feeling a little, you know, a little weird about spending so much money. Anyway, so I got on the trails here and I was, you know, hiking way, way out there, like miles away, and it was getting dark and cold, so it must have been last winter. It was getting really cold. So I took off my glasses and put in my jacket pocket. And then it was really getting dark and cold, so I started running. So I ran all the way back, and of course I reached in my pocket, my glasses weren't there, and I'm like, oh, shit. So I beat myself up all night long. I didn't sleep well, and I got out there first thing in the morning, the first light, so I could look for them before anybody else got on the trail. So I did, you know, the whole nine miles, whatever, and didn't find them. So all afternoon I'm like, okay, it was an accident, blah, blah, blah. So the next morning. The next day I go out for my hike. I wasn't really thinking about my glasses, but, you know, it's in the back of my mind. And I was remembering the year before. I'd gone skiing with a friend, and she was praying to some saint, I don't remember who, for a parking place. I don't know. I was just thinking about that, and I was thinking how strange that we, you know, we have to invent these deities and these gods and these different beings to pray to. Like, why can't we just pray? So in my mind, and I'm not exaggerating at all, this is exactly what happened in my mind. I said to myself, just help me find my glasses. I just put it out there, and I swear to God, I looked down and they were right in front of me. I'm not kidding you.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: That's amazing.
[00:09:12] Speaker C: They were right in front of me. And, you know, things like this happen, and this is a common occurrence out here. It's just so bizarre. Well, I think, like, there are things just being open to it.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Exactly. That's what I was just going to say, is that you're a very awoke person. And when you're awake to the magic that's all around us, us, it. It really is working with the elements and being open to receive the messages of the universe. You know, they really are everywhere. And it's. It's a beautiful thing when. Yeah. When you can align with that. Well, that's amazing. Congratulations. So now you. So now you have your glasses back.
[00:09:44] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I've had my. I've had them for like a year, and they're. They're like my best friends.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Well, that's. That's incredible. Well, so I want to take everyone back on. On this episode, we're sitting down with Eric Nagelman, who is an amazing. You are. You are such an inspiration to me and such a gift to the world in terms of how you flow through your life and through your world. And really, the connections, like. Like you were just saying with the glasses, it's a perfect example of how you've chosen. And every day I believe you choose this for your life, that you've chosen to find the deeper connections to nature and to the world around us. And so I just wanted to talk a little bit about your story and. Was this something that you always had in you, or was this something that you realized later in your life?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Who knows? I mean, who. I don't know. I don't know anything anymore. You know, every time I doubt something, I get smacked in the face and get shown the right way to go. I mean, I don't know. I totally believe in angels, and I just think the angels have been watching out for me my whole life, and I don't know why or how or. I don't know. It's just the way it is. You know, I had no plans in my life. I had no. I mean, I've always loved plant material, and I love. I've always loved nature, and so that's always been my passion. And I don't know, I just think when you believe in your passion, that everything just opens up to you. That's the way it's been in my life. And. I don't know. I don't have an answer for it, and, you know, it doesn't really matter at such an amazing life, and I'm so grateful, and I just want to make the very most out of it.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: I think you've done a really good job of that. So you're. You grew up as one of nine children, right? So tell. Tell us a little bit about what that was like in your. In your reality.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: Well, to be honest with you, I always felt like I was the odd one. And maybe everyone feels that. I don't know. But I never really felt like I fit in. And everyone always said I was just so shy. Well, yeah, I probably was a little shy, but I was also just sort of like, what the.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: How do I belong here?
Yeah.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: But anyway. Yeah, it was. It was, you know, had a good. It's good parts and it's bad parts. I don't think I had a happy childhood, but whatever. But I did have this passion that I mentioned, and. And that just sort of. That just sort of ruled my life, really. I. I Mean, I didn't do well in school. I dropped out of high school. I just. All my brothers and sisters were, like, straight A students and, you know, cheer. Cheerleaders and had a student body president and all that stuff. And I just. No, I'm not doing this. And so I just followed my passion and it just sort of led me to where I am now.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: And it led you, really, to deep creation in the art form of landscape and gardens. So when did you know that you had a talent there? Was there a particular project when. When you just connected so deeply with the plants around you that you were like, wow, I'm. There's actually something to this, and I'm. And I'm good at it. Did you have that moment, actually, just.
[00:12:52] Speaker C: Recently, to be honest?
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Tell us about that.
[00:12:57] Speaker C: I mean, yeah, I've worked all over the world and I've had great opportunities, but I'm working on this book for Rizoli. I don't know if I can mention her name, but anyway, the publishers wanted me to collaborate with the photographer and the writer. Amazing people. So, you know, I agreed to it. It wasn't. It was really just, you know, if I can inspire other people. But that's where I'm at now. And anyway, he said, we just needed someone in your field who's a real heavy hitter, and that's you. And I just went, oh, really?
Okay, that's amazing. And it's sort of kind of been in the back of my mind. It's like, wow. And these people know who I am, you know, when. Like, in traveling in India, you know, where there's just hundreds of thousands of people and I'm just another person, you know, I don't know. It doesn't really mean anything, but it just made me feel like, wow. I mean, it's humbling, really.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: No, but I think it's. It's touching on. When you follow your passion, I believe this. I believe that when you follow your passion and you're really into what you believe in and what you love, and you can actually do that as a profession and give your gifts to the world, it's. It's this trans. Yeah. It's this transmission of your soul's energy into light, form. And so when people recognize that, it's not so much the recognition of accolades or, you know, stroking your ego, but it's more the recognition of wow. Like, I did my purposeful, passionate, you know, intention of what I'm doing here on planet Earth, and people are recognizing it as this really beautiful thing. And I Think that's, that's what's happening in your life and it's, it's been happening for a while, but maybe you're just waking up to that.
[00:14:41] Speaker C: Well, that reminds me of another story. I was giving a benefit tour of this property and it was a really extraordinary property, incredible house. And so I was giving this, we were giving this talk. And first the architect got up and talked about the architecture and his involvement. It was a long story. Anyway, and then the owners got up and talked about their involvement and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they turned to me and I got up and I said, you know what this means? What this is to me is this is what man can create. I mean, this is extraordinary and this is what we're capable of.
In another story, I was giving out to a bunch of school kids. This is at Lotus Land. And they've been all through the garden. And you know, it's a 37 acre garden. It's a huge garden. And they came to where I was waiting for them. Now, I hadn't really planned anything, so I never, you know, off in la la land. So I thought, I've got to get their attention. I just screamed really loud, passion. And they all like froze. I'm like, what? And I started talking about Madame Gonawalska who was the creator of Lotus Land and her passion and my passion and just find your passion, whatever it is, what makes you t. Right in your solar. What is that? The solar or whatever it's called, you know, right in your rib cage.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Now, solar plexus.
[00:15:59] Speaker C: What gives you little butterflies in there? What is it? Because something, there's something out there that's going to make you tick. And it doesn't matter what it is, if it's finances, you know, go for it, whatever it is. Don't listen to anybody. Just listen to that voice inside of you. And that's what sort of led me to where I am today.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: No, I think it's, it's, it's the biggest takeaway that, that I feel like you offered to the world is that lesson. It's, it's absolutely exactly what you said of highlighting that for just a moment for everybody to really understand what you're saying, because I do. I feel like we're living in a time of passionless people running around planet Earth and not very happy, you know, And I think one of the easiest ways to connect with happiness and to really find that internal joy, so spring, is to connect with something that you're passionate about and really think about what that is at. No matter what it is, as you said, it doesn't. It doesn't matter what the passion is, but just go after something that you're really passionate, even if it's a side project. For now, if you can't leave your current reality and it's just something you, you know, you pick up a paintbrush and you start painting because you're passionate about that. It's a muscle and a skill that I feel like as humans, we need to flex passion. We need to engage passion on a daily basis if possible, because then it just. It connects us straight into our heart, which for me, the heart is. Is the truest place of where our soul resides. And so it's a really. It's a really beautiful expression of how to go through life. So thank you for sharing that because I think if there's one takeaway from, from our talk today, it's that to follow your passion, as you said, at any cost, just do it.
[00:17:38] Speaker C: Well, you know, so this. I'm a little older than you, but I grew up like in the 60s and 70s and it was such a time of great passion. You know, everything was being questioned and changed. You know, from sex to clothes to music. I mean, everything was like. It's like a rebirth of. Of art.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: And.
[00:17:56] Speaker C: And after that period, like 80s and 90s, it just seemed like nobody really cared. You know, there. There was no. There was no, like, great movement like there was back in the 60s and 70s. And to me, that, that was such a time of passion.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: And I.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: And I think you alluded to it that I think we're living in a world where passion has sort of gone off, centered, you know, and now it's about, you know, money and fame and glitter and diamonds and all that stuff. Not there's anything wrong with that stuff, but I don't know. I think we've lost perspective a little bit.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: No, I think so too. So what do you think shifted from. From the 70s into that next phase of life? What do you think happened there?
[00:18:34] Speaker C: Well, now I think we're. I mean, now the world is in such trouble. I think. I think people are getting reawakened, you know, with our current incoming president and neo Nazi. I mean, all this stuff is all coming back and people are like, what the hell is going on? So I think, you know, that that whole adage of you have to reach bottom before you can come back up. I think we're. I think we're kind of at the bottom.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:59] Speaker C: There's also one place to Go.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: Which is, it's a true moment of awakening, for sure. I think we're in a real pivotal moment. Yeah. Where old systems have to be.
Yeah, old systems have to be broken down to be rebuilt for this new awakening phase. And you know, I think it's, it's tragic now and it's very unstable, but it, but it's actually, for me, it's, it's providing real growth opportunity for us to, to step into the truth. We're in this 20 year cycle of truth right now that just started this year. And I think it's a, it's a real pivotal moment for us to really wake up, as you said, awaken to this new earth and create it in a different way, in the way, the way that we want it to be. So I think it's, there is opportunity in it. As you said, it's maybe rock bottom. Hopefully we're close to rock bottom and now we can, we can start to rebuild.
But speaking of that, is, is there a transformative moment in your life that's significantly shaped your current path? Would you say in your own journey?
[00:20:02] Speaker C: You mean one in particular?
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Like every day, Every day is one. Well, anyone that you would like to share?
[00:20:09] Speaker C: The most current one was where I am now. You know, I was in California. I lived there for 60, 62 years or whatever. And you know, I, I did incredible work there. I traveled, I did work all over and I go to LA every week. And I had a lot of great opportunities. And then getting into my mid-60s, it was kind of like, well, it's kind of time to slow down a bit. So I was thinking of buying a second home in New Mexico. And I came out and looked around and was kind of discouraged. And I saw this property where I am now, and I thought, why would I go back to California? And there's a lot of different thoughts that had been brewing, but I hadn't really been aware of them. And it would take me an hour to explain it all. But basically it was becoming a bit complacent for me. I mean, I had like the most wonderful home and like the garden that I might be on my, my farthest dreams. I mean, my garden was so incredible. Three greenhouses, you know, decades of plant collecting and it was just unbelievable. But okay, so I did that. But it was kind of like, well, so I stay here the rest of my life and just put her around on this property. And I thought, no, I need a challenge and I need, I need a new life. I think I explained it to someone where I've had such an amazing life that I want another one. So. So I went back to California and sold my house in two weeks. And after it was in one week and gave away a lot of plans, left a lot there, and packed everything up and came out and built the house. So I'm out here in New Mexico now, which is a completely different way of life for me. And it's kind of awakened a lot. You know, the people here are very friendly. It's a very small town. It's easy. But basically, I spend a lot of time alone, which has been really wonderful because it's been a lot of soul searching and just spending time. I actually saw this psychic in Sedona years ago, and she said, you know, you've done all the work, now it's time for you to enjoy your life.
And I'm just. I'm really enjoying my life life and, you know, taking care of a lot of things that kind of went by the wayside, you know, taking care of relationships and dreams. Like playing the piano. I'd always wanted to play the piano. I've been studying it for a year and a half now. Not.
Not that I'm not frustrated with it, but it's like something I always wanted to do. So now I'm doing these things, you know, now it's amazing, actually. I'm kind of tapping into my male side. I've always been. It's always been really easy to. To tap into my feminine side, but now I'm. I'm out here and I'm kind of the middle of nowhere and, yeah, I have to kind of fend for myself.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: And you're kind of in the Wild West.
[00:22:55] Speaker C: I bought a battery drill the other day. I mean, how Bruce is that?
[00:23:01] Speaker A: That's so funny. That's so funny. I actually know where you live, and I can only imagine you on that land with a battery operated drill. Like, that's great.
[00:23:11] Speaker C: I used to work, and it was just a little too loud and aggressive for me. I'm going back using my screwdriver.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: That's so funny. No, but it's so beautiful because I do believe that the true harmony in, in ourselves is when we can. We can balance the masculine and feminine sides to ourselves, you know, and so it's really beautiful that you're acknowledging this masculine side and tapping into it, going, okay, let's. Let's play with this a little bit more. I think that's awesome. I think that's really awesome. But I also, I will say like the. Again, you're such an inspiration because I remember when you told me that you were put a baby grand piano in this. In this beautiful living room that you have, and that you are going to start taking piano lessons. And I think that's one of. One of the biggest things that I really love, again from you as a teacher, is that you're constantly learning. You're never stopping the learning process, whether what we were just talking about in the beginning of your recent travels to India and just that openness and willingness to learn and to dive into culture and then the willingness to learn a new skill like piano. I commend you for that because I think that's, again, where we get trapped into the monotony of what we think our life should look like, or we just get stuck in living a life that we don't really love. And I feel like you are such a brilliant example of what it means to continue to recreate yourself, but then to expand yourself into new skills and into new offerings. And I don't know, I'm grateful that that's the way you're flowing through your life, because I think it's a beautiful gift.
[00:24:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, you know, Liz, to be honest with you, I feel like I'm in the last quarter of my life. I mean, who knew? But anyway, I'm here and I just got it. I mean, I'm greedy. I want to make it as just the best that I possibly can. Yes, I have the capabilities of doing things like exercise or playing the piano. I mean, I'm going to do it. There's certain things I obviously can't do, and I don't need to do it all, but I want to do everything that I can possibly do. I read a lot. I was looking through this magazine called the Mountain Gazette, and there were these interviews with people that have done the Appalachian Trail, which I didn't know much about, but I thought, oh, I got to do that. I love that. My latest project, I've got my tent and sleeping bag and all the little doodads.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Maybe I'll come join you on the Appalachian Trail somewhere. That would be really.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: That would be so fun.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Oh, my God, that would be such.
[00:25:39] Speaker C: A fun 2,500 miles from Georgia to Maine.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: I know.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: So I'm, like, working through obvious fears of it, like sleeping outside in this little tiny tent and bears and so forth. And I've actually been okay with it all. Until two nights ago, I read about mice and how this guy had mice running over him every night. And a friend told me how he woke up to a mice licking saliva that had leaked out of his mouth. And I'm like, oh, God.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Those are. Those are hard things to overcome. Even if it's just in your mind, just. That's. That's intense.
[00:26:13] Speaker C: All the other fears I can work through, but my. Oh, my God.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: I know that that's intense.
[00:26:19] Speaker C: I had to remind myself they were sleeping in shelters. I'm not going to sleep in a shelter. I have a tent. So, I mean, mine can choose through the tent. But, you know, it's all these fears coming up like, oh, my God. Being alone out there doesn't bother me.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: No, that's the least.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: That's the easy part.
[00:26:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Plus, you're not alone.
There's a lot of culture out there. Yeah, that's for sure.
[00:26:42] Speaker C: True. And I've been. I've been hiking and walking for my whole life, and it's awesome. It's like, this is why I've been doing it. This is. This is the next.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: You're preparing. You're in training right now.
[00:26:53] Speaker C: I'm in training. So I put, like, right Now I have 35 pounds in my backpack and I go hiking every day with my backpack. Well, not every day, but sometimes I don't do it with the backpack. But anyway, I go hiking every day.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: With your. With your beautiful boots or are you actually wearing proper footwear?
[00:27:10] Speaker C: Well, my boots are proper footwear. The oxalo is so good.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: That's actually true. We should put your. We should link your boots to this episode because your boots are fantastic. Eric's style is absolutely outrageously fantastic. And I. I actually need to come shopping in your closet, I think for just the fun of it.
[00:27:32] Speaker C: Oh, my God, my closet's so cool. And having this house. Oh, my God. I mean, I've never lived like this before. My last house was one third the size of this house.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Now you're living like a king. For sure. You're living absolutely.
It's amazing.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: It's amazing. Again, when the opportunities present themselves, I feel like if you don't take advantage of them and you're losing out.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: No, I know.
And it's fun when you can recreate your life into some. A different form and a different shape and a whole new experience. It's like, wow. Okay, I. I have a huge closet and I have a baby grand piano in my living room and I have tons of acres to go hike. I mean, it really is. The dream continues into new form and sometimes even better than what we could ever imagine.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: So 12 people for Thanksgiving and Wow. So nice. It felt so good. Yeah. Now I'm living the life honestly.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: That's amazing. If you could convey one message to your younger self, what would it be?
[00:28:32] Speaker C: Believe in yourself and the magic. I didn't believe in myself.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: When did that come in for you?
[00:28:38] Speaker C: I think when I started getting opportunities that were not normal, like doing a cactus garden at Lotus Land. I mean, that's one of the 10 top gardens in the world. And they asked me to design this garden, and I was like, really? And I remember when they asked me to do it, I was like, oh, my God, I don't know what I'm doing. I mean, what do I. And I just stopped and thought, well, I'll just do what I always do, which is just kind of follow your intuition. And people would say, that's not going to look good or this wouldn't be right. Well, I followed my. My instincts and did what I wanted to do, and it turned out to be just spectacular.
[00:29:14] Speaker A: That's. That's a beautiful reminder. That's such, like. I just want to pause there for a second because the intuition is such an important gateway to our true selves and to all of the. The brilliant gifts that are within us. And I believe that what you just said about just guiding, letting. Being led by your intuition. Let's step back for a second. So lotus land is one. It's one of the top 10 gardens in the world, right?
[00:29:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: And so it's. It's a huge opportunity for you to. Back in the day, to have had this as. As a garden creation. It was probably.
[00:29:52] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Anybody in the world would be. Would be. Would try to do that. I mean, it was a huge opportunity.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And so the fact that then you created it by being led through your intuition, I think that's. That's the creative spark of. Of true genius. You know, when we don't get. When we get out of our head and into our heart and really find the stillness of the intuition there, it's like, wow, the things that we can bring through to life. Again, it feels to me like it's the very essence of our expression of who we are. And I love that you just said that, because I think it's. It's exactly what happens when you can get quiet and listen to your intuition and be guided. And you've done that really well. You and I worked on a project in Mexico, and remember the day that we were numbering rocks, and I think we moved like, I don't know, it was a hundred boulders or something crazy. And I was your sous chef in the kitchen, and I was numbering all of the rocks. But I remember watching you placing these rocks as we started to build this fantastic garden. It wasn't just like plopping the rock down in the soil, but it was turning it and caressing it in a way that the rock had this full art expression. You reminded me of a conductor of his symphony. And the rocks were your instruments. And it just was this really magnificent transmission to watch your. Your genius and. And your intuition and to highlight. I've never seen anyone highlight rocks the way that you did in that garden. It was. It was beautiful. Really was.
[00:31:28] Speaker C: Yeah, it was fun.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: It was fun.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: Part of. Part of how I run my life is just do it. You know, just do it. Stop thinking about it. Just do it.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:36] Speaker C: Because I could have, you know, I could have. I could have spent days here where every rock goes and, you know, does it really matter? Well, kind of, but just do it.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Well, and it was funny because we wanted. Remember, we wanted, like, a plot map of all the rocks and where they were going, and we wanted you to draw something, and you were like, yeah, that doesn't work for me. And then it was like, okay, bring in the crane.
Yeah. And you're telling all these Mexican workers in Spanish. It was hilarious watching them drop the rocks out of the crane. It was so funny. But it was genius because you really were in your creative. In your creative mode. It really was incredible. So.
[00:32:16] Speaker C: It's so fun. It's so fun. It's. It's just. It's like. I don't even know. It's like. Like eating ice cream. It's just like.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: It's so true. It's so true. It was.
[00:32:28] Speaker C: And what you were just saying, what you were just saying circles back to what I was saying, those kids about passion and don't listen to anybody else. Just do it. But, you know, follow your intuition. Follow, you know, what makes you feel right.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think. I think you've had. You've had some obstacles that you've overcome, you know, on your journey of self discipline.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: Everybody does. Everybody does.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: Yeah, everybody does. But, you know, you just gotta rise above it and learn from it. And I'm still dealing with stuff that happened in my childhood, but now I'm clearing all those. Those obstacles up and communicating and talking about things that happened and. Oh, it's just been so rewarding for everyone.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would love to. To just hear your coming out process because I think that that's such a powerful lesson for Those that are going through something like that.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Yeah. And again, if I can inspire people, that's what it's all about. So when I was a teenager, I was outed by one of my siblings, and, you know, I was still living at home, and it became very uncomfortable, and I just had to leave. I actually left the house with a tube, brown paper, grocery bags. That's all I had.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: How old were you?
[00:33:39] Speaker C: I think I was, like, 17. Anyway, so I left, and it didn't go too well. But anyway, I worked it out, and when I was leaving one of my brothers, my mother just cried and cried and cried for weeks, and one of my brothers came up to me and said, look what you've done to your mother. Which, you know, just really broke my heart. I love my mother. You know, who doesn't love their mother? But anyway, so I left home and, you know, because there was just lots of evil eyes at me, and I was just too uncomfortable, so I left home and realized that basically I was kicked out of the house.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:11] Speaker C: Anyway, so many years later, I finally started talking to some of my siblings, and that one brother who said that I sent him a note, and I just said, you know, I just want you to know that I know we all did it the best we could. You know, we were all ignorant. None of us knew how to handle the situation. And I just want you to know that I've forgiven you. I can't forget it, but I've forgiven you. And he wrote back and said, oh, my God, I've been carrying this around for 45 years.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:34:35] Speaker C: And he actually came and visited me, and, you know, we had a little kumbaya moment, which was great. So it's just like taking care of those little nasty little things that happen and facing and communicating about. It's so healing. Once you start doing, it's not difficult. It's just making that initial move to, like, get out of where you're stuck. You know, once you. Once you get out of that initial fear, that just always works. Mostly always works.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: Yeah. No, but it's true. You know, it's this. This podcast.
Yeah. Fear is. Fear is where we get stuck. And. And really, there's two. There's really two directions in life. Right. So it's either fear or it's love, and it's aligning with either one of those. And when you're in the fear, you know, you have all the other emotional come with that. The anger and the sadness and the. The judgment and the disgust. And, you know, all of. All of the things that. That happen when you're in a fear vibr. Frequency and. And when you can actually rise above the fear and look at it from a place of love, which is what the premise of this show is all about is. Is we are the essence of love. And how do we rise into that vibrational frequency? Love has the ability to put us into our truth and into who we really are. And so from there, we can work through all of the shadow parts of ourselves and the broken parts of ourselves, and we can. We can get to a place where we're shedding all of that and really breaking free into you. We truly are. Which is. Which is really the whole point of what we're doing here is to evolve into knowing ourselves as the essence of love. So, yeah, it's beautiful that you were able to. To work through that with your family. And I know that for you it's. It's been a really, you know, as any gay man coming out in. In the day and time that you did, it's. It's an intense time. You know, it's a really intense time in. In your life as. As a young person trying to navigate those waters. And I think that now you've. You've really taken that upon yourself to help other young men and women, I think, also step into that. Right into that truth.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: Well, absolutely. I mean, and frankly, it's not getting much better. It seemed like it was getting better, but now it's sort of slipping back. But, yeah, since I've been here in New Mexico, I've been working on this project, which is a lot more difficult than I thought of, creating a website and helping kids who are trying to come out and having difficulty. And I was talking to some college kids here about it, and one of them said, you know, it's all becoming so assimilated. I think in a few. Few years you won't need that kind of support. And I said. I said, you know, I strongly disagree with you because, you know, in your world, yeah, you had a progressive upbringing, you're going to a great college. You know, you're smart, you're. But there's a lot of people out here that are very abusive and there's a lot of machismo. There's drugs and alcohol and there's a lot of people still suffering. And of course, with the recent. This recent last year, things have gotten a lot worse, but there's still so much hate out there. And I don't. There's no reason for any kid to go through what I went Through.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and I think. I think, yeah, let's support the process. And I think on the journey of discovering who you really are, it's really important to have people that believe in you along your path, no matter what your obstacle is that you're overcoming, you know, so it's like, yes, it's. You need to lean in, into community and into support and into people that have walked the path before you. And I think that's what. What I love about your offering is that you've gone, you've been through the fire, and you've walked through it with. With a lot of courage. And I think that's where it lends itself to other people being able to lean into that support system. So I think that's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful gift.
[00:38:31] Speaker C: I'm at a period of my life where I've been accomplished. I'm financially secure. I don't really need to work anymore. And right now, the reason I'm doing this book on Bathwood's Gardens is really just to inspire people.
If I can be a role model and inspire people, that's all I care about. Yeah, I've left my mark in the world, you know, I've done my job.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:56] Speaker C: Now it's about giving back.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: No, I love that.
[00:38:58] Speaker C: There's so much need out there. Yeah. So much need out there. So many different angles. And everybody has a story, you know, Everybody has a story life.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: Yeah. No, and I think that. That, you know, when I was. I was doing a lot of coaching, and I still am running a mastermind now, but, you know, it was always about, first you have to find your light within, which is, you know, knowing yourself and really getting comfortable with who you are and really learning about who you are on an internal level. And then it's about shining your light outward and giving it back to the world. And so it's this reciprocity of light exchange. And I think that's what you're saying is that you're at the point of your life where you. You've come and you've done what you needed to do, and now it's about basking in the glory of that light and giving it back to others that. That can benefit from the inspiration and the wisdom teachings. You're. You're so wise, and it's so beautiful to hear the lessons that you've learned. I mean, I hope and wish that you would write autobiography. I would love to have you do that. I would love to read that.
[00:40:04] Speaker C: Well, maybe. Maybe you'd be My ghostwriter, of course.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: Of course. Let's figure that.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: I was just listening to you thinking, God, you put it all down so well. And, I mean, everything I've been trying to say, you put in, like, two sentences.
I so admire people that have the gift of Lent, the language. Because I remember sitting in a meeting, and it's this philanthropic thing I'm doing, and there's a meeting with. There were about eight people, and they're all, you know, educated and been to college. And at the end of the meeting, I thought, I have no idea what these people are talking about.
[00:40:40] Speaker A: You're hilarious.
And yet, you know everything that's going on in the room. So it's. It's a different level of understanding. You're like.
[00:40:50] Speaker C: But, yeah, it's just interesting how some people have a gift. The gift of language, like. Like anything. I mean, it's beautiful.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: It is beautiful. It is absolutely beautiful. What did you come here to love? What would you say you came here to love?
[00:41:04] Speaker C: In the world, you mean?
[00:41:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:07] Speaker C: What did I come to this world to love? Oh, nature. Definitely nature. And I mean, that's a huge, huge word, but, I mean, it had life, nature, people, plants, spirit.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: Yeah, you.
[00:41:21] Speaker C: Me.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. You've done it. You're. You're.
Yeah, you've definitely flexed the muscle of love, that's for sure. What do you think the world needs more love?
[00:41:33] Speaker C: I mean, we're all in this together, you know?
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:37] Speaker C: There's so much dysfunction out there. I mean, I. I don't want to go into it, but when I think about some of the experiences I've had, different working with different people, and I love people, but, man, there's so much dysfunction out there.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Love is a key healing ingredient for the planet, you know? It really is. And it's interesting when you align to love on. On an everyday path, as. As an intentional path, when you align to love, whether it's thinking gratitude thoughts, whether it's telling somebody in the grocery line, you know, that you like their outfit, whether it's going out in nature. You know, all of those things are just these little moments where we can align with the power of love. And it. It doesn't cost anything, and it doesn't take a lot of effort. It's just awareness. And I do believe that's a healing way.
[00:42:25] Speaker C: But you're right. It's everywhere. I mean, it's everywhere.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:29] Speaker C: Every minute of our lives.
[00:42:31] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. So.
Yeah, exactly. Fill in this blank. I am.
[00:42:38] Speaker C: I am Ecstatic.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: Oh, my God. That's so perfect for you. You are ecstatic.
I love that. Oh, my God. Just you saying that. I feel like there's, like, energy radiating through every cell of your being in this ecstatic, like, little dancing cell all around.
[00:42:56] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Yeah. No, it's true. It's so true. Oh, my God.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: I love that. I love that. No, I love that. I love that. That's, like, the high note. I feel like that's. We say no more. I mean, I'm ecstatic. And that's. That's it. I love it. I think that's a beautiful way to finish this conversation and to have more conversations. You know, I feel like there's a lot that you can be teaching at. What this platform really is, is it's a movement into the power of love. And love as the vibrational frequency we all live in. And love is the essence of who we are. And so the point of this show is to really just light a fire inside your heart to be more connected to the world around you and the internal world and the privacy of your own heart. And Eric is such a living example of that. You are such a teacher. I would love for you to teach a garden class or some sort of landscape architecture class. Maybe we do a retreat together. I don't somehow. Maybe we write a book together. But it would be super fun because you're. You are just radiating joy. And I love. I love your energy, and I'm so grateful to have you on there. What's that?
[00:44:05] Speaker C: Put it out there, right? Gotta share it and get it out there.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Well, thank you for joining us today on came here to Love. For those of you that want more information, we'll put all the links to Eric Nagelman if you do. I don't know if he'd be willing, but if you do have an outrageous project that you want, hit his expertise, involvement. I know we pulled him out of retirement, made him come down to Mexico for this project. I don't know if you'd ever do that again, but you never know.
[00:44:35] Speaker C: Well, you know, I. I do it because I. I get a lot of offers and. And I only am interested in doing it if there's some kind of a wonderful side. Side advantage. For example, if. If, you know, if. If it could help to promote sustainable living and organic growing or, you know, and any of those positive. It's not just about designing a garden for some reason. It's not about that. There's got to be more to it than that.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: No, I love it.
[00:45:02] Speaker C: I've done that my whole life. And I'm to a point where I don't have to do it, but I don't. I'm happy to do it if there's. If there's side benefits to it. Yeah, you could probably put it in better words, but you know what I'm trying to say.
[00:45:15] Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
[00:45:19] Speaker C: I have this other job in Mexico that I did for this big growing company, and they had this whole department with their laboratories that I had never seen in all the years I've been going back and forth. And one time I went there and I was given a tour of the laboratory, seeing what they're doing with organics, and it was so inspiring. And so when I returned to California, I thought, people need to hear about this because all they hear about is doom and gloom and. Yeah, but there's a lot of positive things happening too. So because of that, I created this symposium. We've done two of them so far, where I contacted different people in the landscape or farming industries that are working with organics and sustainable living to come and give talks. And so I've contacted, I think, like 15 or 20 speakers, and I found a great venue to do it. So I've done two of those so far and it's been very successful. People love, you know, we gotta hear about these things. We gotta hear about all the positive things that people are doing. It's just incredible, you know, the opportunities that people are presenting, you know, in sustainable living.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: No, it's so true. And we need to.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: We need to come together like that. But if there's an angle like that that's part of doing what I do, I'm more than happy to do it.
[00:46:36] Speaker A: Okay, well, everyone heard that, so for sure. And then also, you know, let's. Let's include your events because a lot of our listeners would love to track you down and go do something with you. So we'll include those down below this episode as well so that people can, you know, find out when you're doing what you're doing and, yeah, stay connected. Thank you so much for joining us for today. Yeah, it was so nice to catch up with you. I always love talking to you.
[00:47:04] Speaker C: Thank you. Good to hear your voice.
[00:47:05] Speaker A: You too. You too.
[00:47:08] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us on Came Here to Love. I hope today's conversation has inspired you to live more fully, align with your soul and spread more love in the world. Remember, love is the highest vibration, and when we lead with it, we elevate not just our own lives, but the lives of those around us. If today's episode resonated with you, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who could eat, use a little more love in their life. And as always, keep tuning in for more heart centered conversations that remind us all why we are here to love. Until next time, keep living your light and loving with your whole heart.
