Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: But there's also wisdom that comes from play. And there's wisdom that comes from the freedom and creativity of just working with what is. There's no question that freedom and wisdom comes from play. Yeah, I think it also comes from the divine. I think it also comes from nature. I think we have those six different pockets where wisdom or more wisdom is available to us. What's inside of me, what's inside of you? Collective play, nature and the divine welcome.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: To Came Here to Love, a podcast hosted by me, Liz Logan where we explore heart centered conversations with visionary leaders from around the world. This podcast is a journey into wisdom, a path to transformation and an invitation to catch the highest vibration of all love, elevating our lives and connecting us more deeply to ourselves and the world around us. Our mission is simple to live with passion, align with purpose, and spread more love. In each episode, we invite compassionate leaders to share insights, personal breakthroughs and heart inspired ideas that impact change not only in our own lives, but also in our communities and the world beyond. Whether you're seeking new perspectives, deeper connection or a sense of purpose, Came Here to Love offers transformative insights that inspire, enlighten and remind us all why we're here to love.
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Today on Came Here to Love, we sit down with Xander Grouse how founder of Adaptive Leadership plus and creator of Explorer Process. A recognized authority on leadership and change, Zander has been a confidential advisor to presidents, activists and change agents in their most critical moments of transition. Zander is a renowned facilitator, speaker and advisor to leaders around the world with a broad reach into the activist, global business, philanthropic, entrepreneurial and creative communities. He believes everyone, everywhere should have the ability to evolve their life and work. For the last two decades, Zander has created programs that are uplifting, challenging, interactive and grounded in the principle and the capacity to adapt and evolve, which is vital to each of us. With a deep commitment to sharing what works, Zander co authored Adaptive Leadership Tools and Tactics for Changing the World from Harvard Business Press. He was also co author of the Harvard Business Review article entitled Leadership in a Permanent Crisis. Today we have the pleasure to sit down in conversation with him on Came Here to Love. Enjoy.
I'd love to dive into how you're flowing through the world and what you're doing in the world. I think that this is such an important thing for people to hear about, so I think we start there of just tell us what you're up to and how you're using your light in the world and the gifts of your love.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: I mean, I'M really trying to figure out what to do with my time and how to be discerning. If I'm honest, I would say half of my time is reactive, if not a little bit more. These days, as so many people I love and so many of the issues I care about seem to be in some challenge. And whether that's because of the times we're in or what's happening in our context or what's happening inside, a lot of people are coming to me out of a desire for understanding or some friendship or some secure connection to figure out what to do. And so I'm honored to be met and invited into those moments. And I'm really humbled by the size and the scale of what people are facing and happy to talk more about that. And like, that's giving me a lot of perspective of what's happening in our system.
[00:03:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: So I'm really in this beautiful conversation of what's happening with all of us and what does it mean? And I've started calling it the great adaptation. Yeah, I love that we are in this moment when more humans on the planet consciously understand, we may have always understood this, that our system, our macro system, is broken or limited and not sustainable. That the macro system that many of us are living under is extractive and unjust in some real ways. And whether that's on either side of kind of politics and polarity is that we have this collective understanding that it's not working.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: What I'm trying to do is a, to understand that for myself out of my own need and help other people understand that. And if we're going through this great adaptation, to me it means a whole bunch of things that matter. In part, it means that we need a vision of what things could look like on the other side. Because when we have a future that we believe in, we are willing to make choices and sacrifice and fall more in love with ourselves and each other. And when we don't have a vision of the future, we are often just kind of limited and susceptible to fear and to what other people are kind of doing and thinking. And so I'm really committed to this. Great. I'm talking. I can talk more about the great.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: I love this. I love this. No, I feel like, you know, you're definitely a sought out advisor to so many different industries, so many different levels of authority and humanity. And what I really feel, especially as you were saying that and how I know you to be what I feel like you are and what, what is one of the greatest achievements I Think we're all here to actually be is what you are. And that is a harmonizer where you actually are, are holding space of all of this turmoil. And you're helping, guiding people through this perception of truth, you know, of how we actually move in a way that's honest to our own hearts and that's also reflective to the outside world and harmonizing those. I always say, when you're in inside world is harmonized with your outside world, you know, now we can actually take a step forward into that future that you're talking about. And so you're this magician. I see you like holding these two different polarities, and you're this magician of harmonizing energy. And you're just kind of like, you know, doing one of these balancings while everything's spinning around you. And so I want to. I want to touch on two things because you've been really involved in the past election, which I talked to you after that, and it seemed like just this level of intensity in our country, you know, in the US So I want to talk about that. And then I also want you to take us to the fires in la, because you also were on the ground there and you're put in these positions again where humanity is calling you to help hold that harmonized force. And so I'd love for you to just kind of take us into those experiences and let us feel what that. That's like for you. And being in those intense situations, it's.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Interesting to think about what is the harmony within the intensity. Right. As you know, I'm a. Music has been one of my best friends my whole life, or I've been using music as medicine. And so what is the music that's playing in those times of intensity?
[00:07:19] Speaker C: It's such an important. That's. That's actually. I want to pause there for a second because that's so important. I am finding that as a healing mechanism too. And the, the music I play is such a vibrational frequency throughout my body. And so it really does matter. When you're, when you're in a situation where you need certain music, it is the harmonizing force. It's good medicine.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah. But being like a, a DJ or a music pharmacist is a challenge. Right. Because what we're trying to do is bring people to a place where the music inside of them matches what they need and feel. But if the outside of them or inside of them is one of fear and chaos or calamity, it's really hard to be in a place of connection. And creativity, just that metaphor. And I think that's part of the work of how do we honor the music that's playing in the world and outside of us and inside of us. And as you know, it's. I don't know if we always achieve harmony. Like, we need to be in relationship with dissonance and harmony. Right. And when is that happening? Right. And how do we stay in relationship through all of that? One way to look at the election is really from just the single perspective of safety, of who felt safe and what does it mean to feel safe, and what does it take to feel safe? And if we don't feel safe inside of ourselves, it's really hard to take care of others.
[00:08:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: And so one of the lenses of. I would look at the election is how have people learned to keep themselves safe? Which of those actually work? Which of them do the exact opposite? Then keep them safe, and then what would it mean to be safe and how can we do that? And we unfortunately learn over and over again that false hope is better than no hope.
And a lot of the election is. Is searching for false hope because other hope wasn't available on all sides.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: And I can see that in myself, too. And so it's really. It takes a little bit of work and effort to have compassion and love. As we're talking about love and we're talking about Valentine's Day.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: Yeah. I know.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: People who are opposite from us or opposition to what we believe in. And part of what my training has helped me hopefully understand is that the opposition are not evil jerks. They're the people who have the most to lose in their worldview if they accept mine.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Very well said.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: It's a way of understanding them.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Say that one more time, just to let that really sink in, because I.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Love that those who oppose us or opposition have the most to lose in their narrative, in their belief system and their values, their priorities, their loyalties by accepting something else or what I have to put forward.
And what's really challenging is how do we regain that humanity? When I started working in politics, I actually loved it because it was. I still love it in some ways, but it was that.
[00:10:18] Speaker C: Just that, like, I can't even relate to that statement.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: I know, I know. We'll talk about that. But it's. It used to be much more human. It used to be much more transactional.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that's.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: You don't care about this, but I care about this. But I care about this thing that you want. So it's trade. And when we label people as evil, then we give ourselves potentially much more permission to not treat them well. And we need to figure out how people can be wrong but not evil.
[00:10:42] Speaker C: Well, and I. That's kind of the premise to what this podcast is about. So came here to love is less about the actual feeling, emotion of love and more about the action, the verb, the. The reality of who we really are at a soul level. And so what you're saying is that, you know, in regards to what you're saying, there's fear and there's love, and when you're operating in the fear mechanism, we can't really get to that humanity piece where we see each other. We can recognize differences and we can honor that. But when you come from this place of love that we're talking about, it opens you up. It doesn't mean we have to agree. It just means that I value what you have to say, I respect what you have to say, and I'm not going to react in a fearful place. I'm going to stay in a place of love and just acknowledge that. Okay, we see different, differently in this. But. But there's room for all of it because again, so much of it is about our own personal growth. And so what we need to flex and bend into the lessons are our own personal journey. And it doesn't have to be this polluted thing to the other person. So I like that you're touching on that.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we could talk in different altitudes, but I think love is always a dialogue. Of course, love is always a dialogue of what is happening here and there and between us and those things. Politics, in its best, is a dialogue.
What does it mean to have a secure border? What does it mean to take care of others? What does it mean to have expectations that people lift themselves up? Those can be dialogues. So the thing we're hoping for is a beautiful dialogue and trying to engender that all of us know what it's like to be talked at or down to or to experience a monologue.
[00:12:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: What that does to us.
[00:12:36] Speaker C: When was the first time you got involved in politics? I don't know this.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: That's a good question. I mean, lots of different ways. I mean, I. I think the. I'm lucky that I grew up in New York City. The child, through public servants who, you know, dinner table conversation was how does the world work? How is it broken and what's our place in it? So my mother, who worked in the kind of family health world, who worked in kind of care for families early on we lived in the stories of them trying to privatize hospitals and what that meant and who that was serving and who it wasn't in some ways.
And then, you know, I was very lucky to go to a pretty privileged, prestigious school that was out of the bounds of what my family had experienced before in some ways. And so I ran for student government when I was a student there.
[00:13:26] Speaker C: And what was this? Elementary school or high school or.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: No, this is college. I went to Wesley, which was this great individualism. And I was on the student government there and wrestled with need, blind admissions when I was there, which was the idea that people could go to school without financial consideration and their financial need would be met.
There was always this kind of belief and understanding that we're part of the world. There was a reluctance to accept that the way things are was the way it had to be.
[00:13:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: And that still exists. I still walk around, I'm like, this can't be it.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: This is not.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: This can't be the best of us.
[00:14:03] Speaker C: No, no. But I, but I think that's, that's the good part about continuing to strive towards something better. And I think that, you know, as we evolve in our consciousness and as we evolve in our own journey, it's, it's, it's raising that bar for all of us, you know, and it, and it's hopefully raising the collective consciousness to a new level of awareness so that we can do better. You know, I feel like the saying of when you know better, you do better. And so when you wake up to the fact that we can actually do better collectively and, and, and I believe always that it starts with the self first. You have to be aware of your own role in this to then affect the collective. But, but of course we can do better. I walk around a lot and I'm like, woof. It's intense. It's intense. How is being in, in California and the fires? Because that devastation, you know, Mother Earth is, is so fragile right now. And I feel like just feeling that I was in Mexico when all of that was occurring, and I had a lot of friends in LA that, that obviously lost everything. And I've been through my own house fire and have lost everything. And so I know the, the pain of what that feels like, that ripping apart of literally the devastation of not even being able to stop that occurrence. But how was it being there after? Because you were there.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: I was there after. I was there after twice. And I don't want to compare my experience being after to those who are living in It.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: But I think. I think a lot of things about it, I think it's always interesting of where do we place our attention and in this moment in history where we have some very specific examples of masculinity on display, some of the examples of what we saw of heroism, of the firefighters, of incarcerated humans who beautifully fought these fires, I think there's so much to admire and learn from and we're not paying enough attention to some of those heroic acts.
[00:16:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: And I think you start to see when people are under stress, what happens? What support do they have? Where are they resourced or not?
I have this difficult belief that humanity is going through a more difficult trying period and things are going to be more tumultuous for a while. And so what happens, What I'm worried about is that the speed and frequency of these big events is increasing and that what's going to happen is we're going to turn to our coping mechanisms which were in some ways insufficient for the reality before.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: Right.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Faced with bigger challenges. So our coping mechanisms are not going to meet the moment. And I think we saw beautiful examples in post fires and into fires, people's coping mechanisms being sufficient and insufficient.
And so what do we need now? What we need now is honoring what works. Obviously, we need a larger menu of coping mechanisms and we need ample opportunity to drop into sanctuary and relationship to help hold the things that are too big for us to hold ourselves.
[00:17:17] Speaker C: Amen. I love that. Like, yes, sign me up. I want to do that. That's what I want to do. I love that. And it's. It's true. It's. It's what? Honestly, it's. It's. When you say it in such an eloquent way, it's. It's very basic in terms of the theory of it, and it's very complex because it's. It's really allowing us to be vulnerable and. And in our heart, you know, for me, it's like we're opening up to this equation or this moment in time where we get to choose, are we going to be in our head or are we going to be in our heart? And when you can be more in your heart and operate again from that place of genuine love of who we are at a soul level, it's. You move differently. The frequency shifts, the. Everything, the vibration around you shifts, the people you attract into your life shift. And when you move into your head, it's kind of chaotic and it's. I just actually had this experience. I was dealing with some real estate transactions and it, because it was business. I was so in my head and you know, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking. And it all imploded. It all just like every possible scenario just imploded. And the message for me was, one of my biggest teachings was it was like, why are you operating from your head in any of this? This is a heart level thing and it's all heart level thing. And so it's this learning of how can we really show up every single day and know the difference? You know, am I in my head? Am I in my heart? And when you are, what is that giving? What is that putting out for? To your point of what we're trying to do in the world and how we're trying to be coexisting with other humans. So it's. Yeah, it's tricky that head, heart, balance, dance.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: And it's the result of some real experiences. Yeah, I mean, I think the idea that the reason I'm in my head more than is ideal is because that was the best strategy that my younger self knew to do.
[00:19:18] Speaker C: Yeah, of course.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: And my kind of trauma response to my upbringing was to be hyper vigilant and hyper productive. To try and control an environment that was not controllable.
I can recognize where it comes from.
[00:19:34] Speaker C: Yeah, of course.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: It's so practiced.
[00:19:36] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's ingrained.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: There's not as many people you run into the world like you who celebrate the heart, who amplify it and have the patience for the heart to be a little messy sometimes figures out what it needs and wants because it's not as practiced getting its needs and wants met.
[00:19:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Yep, it's there. It's a muscle to flex and to massage and to play with. And I, you know, I think this is part of the reason we're all suffering so much is that we have our hearts in these cages and they're dusty and they're, they're scarred and they're, you know, they're broken. And this is part of really what the wake up call is, is, is about letting go, letting you know that surrendering into maybe a more fluid heart space so that there's more oxygen, there's more pumping, there's more response in a really beautiful way. Okay. I was going to ask you. We went dance like this is one of my funnest parts of you. So I came to New York and you took me to. I want to take everyone through this experience because I thought it was such a cool experience. But I thought we were going to dinner and I show up for Dinner started with dinner. We started with dinner.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: That was the appetizer for the evening.
[00:20:51] Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. Tell everybody where we ended up. Because I thought that was such a cool. And talking about humanity in terms of experiential learning, I just felt like that was such a refreshing night.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, we ended up at house of yes to Tasha Blank's party, which is just an extraordinary community gathering, which is led in such a welcoming, inviting way for people to explore what's alive for them at the moment, explore their humanity, their edges. And to be in community and dialogue with that stuff. I think as we were talking about earlier.
[00:21:30] Speaker C: Yeah. And to dance your. You know, and to dance your ass.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: And to dance yourself to ridiculously good music with some live drumming with people who have taken a little bit extra time to figure out what outfits make them feel really good.
[00:21:45] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: There was definitely adornment. And, like, it's a beautiful space and community.
[00:21:52] Speaker C: It's such a beautiful space. And I love at the beginning, because she's set the. She set the rules. And I think that this is such an important part of intentional space holding. And I. And I believe that you do this really well as well, where it's not just jumping into a container, but it's actually saying, look, we're coming into sacred space. Let's honor each other. And one of the things that she really did well was to talk to those points of like, okay, here are the rules of tonight. And so, you know, honor each other. And I also loved that she was like, put the cell phones away. Like, shut it down. Because for me, I feel like we're the very best we can be when we're in the present moment. And that's actually why I love dropping into these conversations, because I get to just turn off everything else in my world, and I get to really be in this space with you and everyone listening. And I hope those of you that are listening are also just dropping into the present moment, because this is where we get all the answers anyways. It's like this moment of just pristine downloading or opening up to all source of reality. And so in this dance party, though, where we put our cell phones away and we were just dancing our asses off, and it was like time didn't exist. The world just like walls kind of didn't even exist. It was just this gorgeous bubble of fun music, incredible dancing, and a lot of joy and love. So thank you for taking me to that, because I. I think back on that night a lot, and I'm like, God, I Need I need to come to again?
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Well, certainly you do need to come to New York again.
[00:23:26] Speaker C: I know.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: And, like, we could get philosophical about some of it.
[00:23:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: Also helps us understand, like, where does wisdom show up? Right. Because you talk about being present. Right.
[00:23:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: And the more present we are, like, there's a few different dimensions that become more available. Right. The wisdom that's inside of me becomes more available. The wisdom that's inside of you that I'm receptive to and listening to becomes more available.
[00:23:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: Created some dance moves and some of that that neither of us could have done on our own. So there's a third dimension of what's, you know, in the collective.
[00:23:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: But there's also wisdom that comes from play, and there's a wisdom that comes from the freedom and creativity of just working with what is. There's no question that freedom and wisdom comes from play.
[00:24:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: I think it also comes from the divine. I think it also comes from nature. I think we have those six different pockets where wisdom or more wisdom is available to us. What's inside of me? What's inside of you? Collective play, nature and the divine.
[00:24:25] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Times we're lucky that all of those things co.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Moment. Right. You have a habit of landing yourself in beautiful places with beautiful people doing consequential things.
[00:24:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: That, I think, allows more of that wisdom to be present. And so I think that's part of the gift of what that evening was or what more of us need.
[00:24:45] Speaker C: For sure.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Talked about before. If we're about to potentially face more challenges or if some of the constructs of our worlds which we have held as stable are becoming less stable, we probably need to turn to those six for wisdom, and we'll need to more often.
[00:25:04] Speaker C: And for me, again, I'm just going to reiterate this because it's a really important point to how you access those pillars of wisdom. I'm just gonna say it's always in the present moment, because I'm gonna. I'm gonna go there. And. And it's always through the heart. And it's like when we can. When we can let go of the mind, it's like you're saying, like, shed away all of the thought form and everything going on in. In the world in the moment, the chaos that's going on around and we can come into that still point inside ourselves, then the wisdom is just like overflowing and. And, you know, I did this this summer. I was in Vail at my house there, and I used to go hiking with I used. I hike every single day or I. I'm on my bike in nature, but it's a really important way for me to play. And I used to go with friends. And it was really interesting because the conversations on a hike with friends, it's very past tense or future tense. You know, you're either talking about shit that happened to you in the past or you're sitting there projecting something that you want to call into the future. And. And they're fun conversations. But this last summer, I was doing this experiment in a meditative practice that. That I decided I wasn't going to hike with anyone except for my dog. And he's a phenomenal companion. And he's actually the best teacher because I was being like him in nature. And what it was. I didn't even have my headphones on. I literally was listening to the sounds of nature as I was walking. My feet on the dirt and hearing even the earth underneath my feet and the birds and the wind and the clouds moving and the leaves rustling. And it was so incredibly eye opening and so profound that I. I don't know if I can. I mean, of course I can hike now with friends, and I do, but it's a different. It's a different level for me of. Of now. What I. What really fills me up. And I just thought. I thought it was so interesting, like how profound that shift was and how good I felt after I did that. It was incredible.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Typically every year, every other year, I spend about a week by myself in nature.
[00:27:12] Speaker C: And where is there a particular place you go?
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Various places. It used to be in Colorado and kind of on a mesa in Colorado. That used to be a place and now I'm lucky to find some other places and. Yeah, Iceland has become a place of Iceland. Yeah.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: Can I go with you to Iceland? I want to go to Iceland.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I was there twice last year. I want to go all the time. It's amazing.
[00:27:33] Speaker C: Oh, my God, let's go.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: But what's interesting to me is two things. One, nature is a completely healthy system.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Harmonized. Yeah.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: So it's harmonized. So you can drop into that. And for me, what's always interesting is how long it takes. The first time I went to this, like, mesa, this mountain in Colorado, I was there because I wanted to be present and all the things we're talking about. And it took me about 20 minutes to realize how much I brought with me on that mountain.
How many worries and concerns and trauma and things that just. And it took me about four days to Actually have the ability to actually be present.
[00:28:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: And thankfully, it's taking less and less time, but. But it's. Yeah, it's helpful. And all of us need more time in nature to be of nature.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: Yeah. To remember. Yeah. To remember who we really are.
So. Okay. You are an amazing human. You know that? I think so highly of you. You' on my. On my top list of humans of all time. But I also know you as a remarkable father. And I want to just tap into parenting and fatherhood for you. And you're a single father, so tell us about what kind of father you are, because you're so aware with everything else you're doing in your world. Are you also parenting from that lens? I can only imagine you are. But I would love to know more.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: Maybe. I mean, I. I don't know if. Yeah. Yes and no. Hopefully. Like, I hope my kids feel like they just have a dad and not someone who studies and thinks about this stuff.
[00:29:13] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very true.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: I think the. The greatest hope as a parent is that you evolve at the pace of your kids and your understanding. And I've never felt that my kids were mine. I felt I was here to steward something and took that very honorably and seriously in doing that as well. And it's a constant discovery process.
I don't know. Now I'm in this deep conversation of what is the right balance of protecting my kids and maintaining and continuing their innocence.
Where do I let them struggle and what's the right amount of struggle so they can have grit and learn their own processes for those things. So I'm always in this conversation of the parent within me. I think the hard moments have been when I've realized I wasn't parenting in the way they needed.
[00:30:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: There's ways I parented out of the lack of how I wanted to be parented and then just tried to do the opposite for them and was even not an energetic relationship with my kids.
[00:30:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: And my kids amaze me. And they are such a argument for nature because they're so different from each other.
[00:30:31] Speaker C: They are. They're really different. Yeah.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: The personalities and. Yeah, they're wildly different from each other.
[00:30:36] Speaker C: Isn't it funny what comes out? I always find it fascinating in the same two people. What can. What can end up being the package? It's like, wow, this is. This is amazing. But I do. I do think that. God, I. I think you should do a workshop on parenting because I love what you said, and I think it's so true about being a steward to children as opposed to a possession and something that you own. I think that this is a really big distinguisher in the world of, well, all things. I mean, even with partnership, it's. It's not, you know, it's free will. And. And I do believe that when you can step into the stewardship of partnering, I mean, parenting, it's a completely. I don't know everything about me. When. When I heard you say that parenting can be so intense because it's such a big responsibility. Right. You're like, gifting this other human all of your lessons and skills and. And a parameter in which for them to grow and learn and. And flex and bend and break and all of the things. And. And when you said the part about being a steward versus I'm. I'm putting these words in, but almost like you're, you know, a possessed. You own the child. It relaxed everything in my being, and it just made this, like, beautiful dance of now you can actually be more playful and to your point of discovering, okay, where are the boundaries? Where do I need to put these and where do I not? And I know I can. I only know that the three. So you have two boys, and I can just feel how much fun you guys have.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Like, we have a great time. We have a great time. And.
And it's delicious, right? I mean, I think everybody has fantasies about having their children and what they'll grow up to be. And I had lots of those, some of which were just absolute myth making.
And I didn't, before I had kids, didn't have the fantasy of, what am I saying? Or doing something that made me or the whole room crack up.
[00:32:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: They keep doing stuff that surprises me that I just take total joy in. And life is hard enough. We should laugh with each other more. We should take it, like, with all a grain of salt and 100%.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: Are they dance? Are they going dancing with you yet?
[00:32:52] Speaker A: Are they doing uneven again? They have their own relationship to everything. My daughter is like a very skilled modern dancer and choreographer. And so watching her find expression of her experience through dance has been just, I mean, astounding.
[00:33:08] Speaker C: And that's so cool. Especially being in New York. How alive.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's the great thing in New York. You can see and witness so much of.
[00:33:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Anything interested in New York is. Is such a beautiful menu of ever. Anything that you want, you can. You can find.
[00:33:24] Speaker A: Yeah. It's as big a city as you want it to be. And I think the. It's actually one of the safest Cities in the world, which, you know, I. I'm proud of. And. But also it's the center of arts, it's the center of philanthropy, it's the center of finance, it's the center of international relations at the same time.
[00:33:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: And I just love even, like right now just imagining all the nooks and crannies of New York.
[00:33:49] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:33:50] Speaker A: What artists, what idea, what conversations are happening and could be happening, and it's.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: And it's all welcomed. If there's a place for it all there.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: It's.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: It's really magnificent.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: So.
[00:34:02] Speaker C: I love New York. No, that's. Okay. So take us to your. Your.
Your a single dad.
Do you. Do you wish partnership was there? I mean, I don't know how much you want to share about your wife, but. Yeah, but I would love to honor your wife at this moment.
[00:34:22] Speaker A: On Valentine's Day. It feels like.
[00:34:24] Speaker C: Exactly.
Let's. Let's honor her a little bit.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, yes, you can honor her. She's an extraordinary soul and being. And. And I think I was lucky to experience so many different dimensions of love, be fully in love, to feel unconditional love, to experience her getting sick, have a terminal cancer diagnosis, and to kind of walk through those commitments and to see how she walked through those parts of life taught me a lot. Yeah, definitely honor all of that and the still unraveling of it and the still sense making that exists now. And. Yeah, of course I want partnership and love and intimacy and connection in life. It helps with everything more.
[00:35:14] Speaker C: There's like a line of women out your door, so I, you know, you just have to decide when you're ready.
And everyone listening to this is gonna text me and be like, how do I get? So that's what Lander.
But I. You were married for how long were you guys married?
[00:35:32] Speaker A: We were married for a decade.
[00:35:35] Speaker C: Yeah. And how old were your kids when she passed?
[00:35:38] Speaker A: My kids when she passed were 13 and 5.
[00:35:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Quite a traumatizing experience.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: Yeah, of course. Of course. And it's also, I think, when you're in the process of walking someone home in. In the death, it's a gift on so many levels because it is the end cycle of life. And so it's an important part of life. And I think that, you know, I live in Mexico where death is really celebrated and talked about and honored, and I really love that because I've. I've actually been a part and. And a very significant part of many people's passings. And to watch someone actually leave their body it's, it's, it's a pretty remarkable experience. And the aftermath is that we all, we all suffer, you know, we all miss what we had. And so I just love that you have the memory of her and your three children. Yeah.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: I think describe it often as I feel like it's, there's a now. It's a feeling of being homesick, of course. There's this quality of nostalgia, of wholeness that existed.
[00:36:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: Sits in there.
[00:36:47] Speaker C: So of course. And I think that, you know, sometimes that, that comes around once and sometimes it comes around multiple times. But I think when you have that with someone, it's hard not to have nostalgia around it and hard not to miss it because it's real, it's what it was.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: You know, the same way all of us have that for whoever our first love was, our first girlfriend in high school or whatever, like that would.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: I don't know if it's the same.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: I don't think it's the same. But there's something that's always alive and unfinished. There's something that always kind of has echoes and energies that are associated with it.
[00:37:20] Speaker C: Right.
[00:37:20] Speaker A: There's lots of forms of love and bigger, smaller loves.
[00:37:23] Speaker C: And I think, yeah, yeah. Love shows up in, in the ways that we need it to as the teachers we need it to be. And I think it's a little.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Sometimes it's a little late.
[00:37:33] Speaker C: Yeah, totally.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: Sometimes the timing does not seem to make so much sense.
[00:37:40] Speaker C: I've been there before.
I've been there before. If you could, if you could go back to your younger self, is there anything that you would tell your younger version of you?
[00:37:50] Speaker A: I mean, I think the thing that's coming up for me now is be an artist. Ah, yeah. Just like that. Self expression, self discovery out loud. Like I would. I, I went to art school. I double majored and art economics. And I. And I don't think I ever fully gave myself permission to be an artist.
[00:38:11] Speaker C: Well, do it. Oh my God. I'm giving you full permission.
What would you do? What would you do as an artist? What form?
[00:38:18] Speaker A: I think I don't. I mean, I think that, I think everything. I mean, I think if you pursue everything as a creative act. I like making things, I like painting, drawing, all of that. But I think anytime I'm such in a conversation of where my. What have I normalized to, what have I been socialized to understanding myself, that's not my authentic self.
From fashion to expression to all of those things.
[00:38:43] Speaker C: You know, it's funny because I, I believe that we all are, are all our artists and our life is the art, you know, and, and actually when I think about you and I think about how you move through your days, you are an artist. Every. Everything you do, from the eloquent words that you choose in conversation, to holding space for others, to how your parent, to how you dance on a dance floor, to how you go listen to music like you are doing art just to know that you are actually the full expression of what art is. And I think, yeah, when you live, that's art.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: You're doing it. Like go into my kids classes because like I wanted to find an excuse to be there. And I would teach art classes when they were in elementary school. And there's this kind of beautiful and heartbreaking thing that happens because when you go into like a kindergarten class and you're like, who's an artist? Every kid raises their hand, right? And then you go into a fourth or a fifth grade class, you're like, who's an artist? And they all point to two or three kids. And something happens in that window that, you know. And I would go in and I'd bring like two glue guns.
I had this whole like, I'm like, what can we make art out of it? And they would say this or this? And I was like, I think we can make art out of anything, you know, and so take garbage and make art. And I live in Brooklyn and near Prospect park and there's this lake in Prospect Park. And so we made in one of these classes this six foot giant fish out of garbage and cardboard boxes. But this giant fish and I told them that we were making was this. There's a real fish. I made this all up in bubbles that lives in the lake that's six foot long. There's this but sometimes. But all you see is the bubbles. And that's why they call them bubbles. And so great because then afterwards for like a few months I had these parents come to me like, you had me wasting a Saturday.
Look for bubbles in this lake. Like waste it.
[00:40:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: On an adventure with your kid. Like looking for a six foot fish in Brooklyn, you know.
[00:41:01] Speaker C: That'S it. That's it right there. It's. It's true.
[00:41:04] Speaker A: It's. I love that we are all artists and hopefully remember it and that's.
[00:41:08] Speaker C: Yeah. And to flex it in different forms. I think that in my, in my years of coaching, one of the things that I realized is that people forget to dream. They lose, they lose the art of dreaming for their life. And this recreation and Evolving of who. Who they can be. You know, that we get to a certain point and it's like, okay, we have the white picket fence and the 2.2 kids and the career and the husbands and the wives and the. All the things. And then we just stop living. And it's like, wait, what?
So, yeah, it's an interesting. It's an interesting reminder that art is kind of this beautiful expression of continuing to evolve and flexing into new form. And I think, I think that's a really beautiful gift of what you're telling us. So thank you. Thank you for that.
[00:41:54] Speaker A: Of course. I also just think imagination is a muscle.
I think that is under trained.
And I think I'm not sure what all of these devices are training us to imagine for ourselves because it's a lot of comparison.
And so there's a skill set to imagine what's possible. Like art at its best is like, what can I make from these ingredients?
[00:42:18] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:42:19] Speaker A: And not just daydreaming, but what's possible from these ingredients? And I think that's a beautiful thing to do. But yeah, under practiced.
[00:42:27] Speaker C: How. Yeah, how, how can we. How would you bring back imagination? Or. I don't even know if it's bring back. I don't even know if it ever really was fully expressed. But I mean, it's such a good project. Let's bring back imagination.
[00:42:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think it's. There's lots of ways to do it. I mean, I don't think. I don't think it's. It's much more available to us than we sometimes recognize.
[00:42:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: There's no question that like morning pages, like, as a device just to quiet the monkey mind so that imagination is more available, but also from that book, the Artist's Way, like bring yourself on dates to see art and to be.
I like the game Take it or leave it. I just invented this. But like, I just look at people and I'm like, what would I take from their life and what would I not?
[00:43:12] Speaker C: And you can tell me more. Tell me more.
[00:43:14] Speaker A: I look at your life and I'm like, what has Liz figured out that I need to like, understand? Right.
[00:43:19] Speaker C: And so you're like, I'll leave it all.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: Yes. I want to move to a beautiful place. I want to be more discerning about who I spend my time with. I want to kind of actively, deliberately find members of a community that inspire me, but also ground me. I want to kind of live with a curiosity about how things work and not take the rules and orthodoxies that are. I can look at you and start to say, there's a bunch of things.
[00:43:46] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Begin to have an imagination for myself.
Your view and my view in Brooklyn are quite different.
So there's so many.
[00:43:56] Speaker C: And yet we can meet on a dance floor and still have fun.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: But I think there's lots of people that we can look at as examples for things we want and don't want. And I think, for me, I used to read a lot of Mark Twain, and Mark Twain has this quote that there's like two days that matter in your life. The day you're born and the day you figure out what you're born for. And I always thought that was poetic and powerful. And I kept waiting for that freaking day to show up. And it shows up, but it changed. And the people who knew what they were born for at 13, my friends are having, like, midlife crises.
[00:44:29] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:44:30] Speaker A: And so I have this different idea that life, it's not a big idea, but this life has chapters. And part of my imagination, which is helpful is like, what is this chapter for?
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:40] Speaker A: If I were to like, name this chapter in my life, what would the name be? How would I name this chapter? Then what chapter could be next? Or after that? And when I put myself into kind of a logic of, like, what's the chapter I'm in and like, how do I be totally present to it and what chapter might be coming, I can actually be more creative because I don't. There's not pressure. I don't have to effort as much. And I think that grounds us as well.
[00:45:03] Speaker C: Yeah, it's so cool.
No, I was just going to say it's so cool that you're sitting in front of this bookcase because I'm visualizing all of those books being the chapters of your life. And. And this is. This is the whole. This is the whole journey for me is I think we've been. At least I was taught, and it's not necessarily from my family with society that I was taught that you get to a certain point and you've made it, you've arrived, right? And then you get to that point and you're like, shit, I don't want to be here. Like, I'm going to blow this all up and go a different direction. And I love what you're talking about because it is. It's all chapters. And every single thing is this dynamic expression of our creative spirit, of our wisdom, of our heart. And we're here to evolve into the best version of ourselves. And that takes time and it takes understanding and it takes practice, and it takes interaction with other humans. And I feel like when we can actually get to a point where we need nothing, but we're just excited for everything, it's like, this is. This is such a cool point because then the full expression of life, it just is this dance where it's like, okay, and. And, you know, in a lot of ways, I feel like that's what your take it or leave it game is about. That it's like you can still look at people's lives and, and say, yeah, I would love to have that, or I haven't flexed that muscle, or I haven't gone to Iceland. Like, hearing you say that, I'm like, I'm taking that.
And I think that's the cool part about. About that game. I'm going to start playing that for sure.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: Well, we can certainly go to Iceland. And. And I'm. I'm not sure that it's needing nothing. Right. I think it's also about, like, what are my needs?
[00:46:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:49] Speaker A: I don't think you were. I don't think you were saying that, but I, I.
[00:46:51] Speaker C: Good. Correction.
[00:46:52] Speaker A: I find that, like, there's, like, three kinds of relationships. Right. There's, like, relationships where I don't talk about any of my needs, then there's relationships where I only talk about the easy ones, and then there's other relationships where I actually talk about what my needs are.
[00:47:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: And because I have so much time in the first two categories, the third one is often messy because, like, I'm learning how to talk about my needs, and I'm learning that just because someone shares a need or I share a need, doesn't mean they're obligated to do anything about it. Yeah. I started doing these amazing, wonderful dinners, which you have to come to, called the Middle Friend Supper Club.
[00:47:28] Speaker C: The Middle Friend Supper. Okay. Let's hear what this is.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So the idea is we bring mostly a group of strangers.
[00:47:35] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: And you go around and you literally share what you're right in the middle of going through, learning about. And it's just a beautiful opportunity to meet humanity. And you hear these stories and you can't help but reflect on where you are in your own process.
You can't help but, like, see the nuance of another person, because it's not. There's an invitation to be messy.
[00:48:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Also an invitation not to rescue. We're not there to rescue anyone. But you just walk through a series of other humans who are humaning and the kind of edges of what's clean and what's clear and what's not and what's messy kind of come out and you just can't help but feel more connected to them and yourself as a result of it.
[00:48:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: It's a wonderful antidote to a world where we have to be clean or pristine or in some way.
[00:48:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:31] Speaker A: Like there's so much time when we're trying to be competent where the older I get, I realize how incompetent I am at so many things.
[00:48:38] Speaker C: Or you pretend you're competent and you're breaking inside instead. You know, it's. It's not a real perception.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: And so yeah, everybody should do these middle.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: I love that. Let's. Let's start that international club. For sure. We can have. We can start. You can start. I'll help promote your dinner party. But it's also, you know, we just. We're just starting a mastermind club in the next couple months. And I've already talked to you about it. But for you guys listening, Xander is definitely going to be on. Our mastermind is one of a brilliant. And maybe this is where we'll. We'll throw out an event in Iceland for everyone to go to. But you. You come with such wisdom. And I just. I just want to thank you because I think your. Your teachings. Just the way you are in the world, it's. It gives me permission to want to be who I am but also discover who I still can be. And that's what. Every time I. I get to talk to you, it's that conversation that I just walk away going. I just got so filled up and so happy and charged from. From talking to you. And I know that everyone listening is feeling.
My question to you is what do you feel like the world needs more of right now?
[00:49:50] Speaker A: Compassion and kindness. I think this. There's such an opportunity for us to be kind to each other. As everyone is going through a major transition of what does it mean to be alive and in this world. It's really needed to see other people for what their challenges are and what they're going through and what their hopes and ambitions are.
[00:50:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:12] Speaker A: Really do believe we're realizing that the way we've lived a lot of our lives is not sustainable.
[00:50:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:20] Speaker A: And. And so that means we're going to go through some big transitions, none of which we can handle on our own.
[00:50:26] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: In my life, I have learned as a response to my own challenges, too much self reliance. And so where is compassion and kindness for each other? I am appalled at what's happening in the world right now of people. People not using their privilege and power to take care of. I don't understand why everybody's not Batman. Like, Batman is this. Like, he has no real superpowers and he grew. He grew. Like he grew up from a traumatized childhood. Right? Like, is, you know, do good for strangers.
[00:50:58] Speaker C: Like, you're Batman. I have never thought of this before. You are Batman.
[00:51:04] Speaker A: I don't know about that, but I think that's. We just. Yeah. Kindness and compassion.
[00:51:09] Speaker C: I love that answer. I love that answer. And it's. It's very true. Especially as we're And. And all. All actually reflect that back. We need kindness and compassion to ourselves as well. Because I feel like, again, there's so much negative self talk and so much judgment in our own hearts, to ourselves. And it's like, gosh, not even in our hearts. It's in our minds. But. But, yeah, I think when we can start this journey of self love on a deeper level, it's amazing how that shifts and changes our outside reality to how we interact with the world. So compassion and kindness to self and to everyone in the. In the world. And then how would you answer this? Just fill in the blank. I am.
[00:51:55] Speaker A: I'm excitable.
[00:51:58] Speaker C: For sure.
[00:52:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I am excitable. Lots of things will get me going, and I will follow a good idea very far.
[00:52:09] Speaker C: Oh, my God. If you want to just have fun. You are fun. Like, this is. You are joy. You're. You're radiating joy.
[00:52:18] Speaker A: I appreciate that.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: Yes. Yes.
[00:52:20] Speaker A: That's why I enjoy us so much.
[00:52:22] Speaker C: I don't. I'm not joy. I wouldn't call me joy. I mean, I'm. I'm a positive person. But you're like joy. Like, you are literally joy. You have to influence me to feel joy.
[00:52:34] Speaker A: More dance floors. More dance floors will help. Exactly. I have an endless supply of music, too, so we've.
[00:52:39] Speaker C: You know that's true. I know. I know. And then fill in this blank.
[00:52:45] Speaker A: Love is always available, you know, worth investing in.
[00:52:52] Speaker C: Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that. We could have so many long, much longer conversations. But we're gonna leave it right there with Xander. Maybe there'll be another version of our conversations. Maybe we'll. We'll do some version of the dinner club here on Came Here to Love.
[00:53:08] Speaker A: But thank you. And then I'm coming to your mastermind. I'm happy to help there wherever I can.
[00:53:13] Speaker C: Yes, I know.
[00:53:14] Speaker A: So it's always a joy. Yeah.
[00:53:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. You guys definitely check out the mastermind it's all about being fully alive, playing full out in your life. And we're gonna have a lot of fun with it. It's. It's really this incubator space of just sacred wisdom teachings. And we're going to have people like Xander from all over the world guiding us and really having us step into our full version of who we most want to be in this lifetime. So, Xander, thank you so much for being here. It's been such an honor and pleasure as always. I would love to just schedule this meeting on a weekly basis with you even off camera.
[00:53:50] Speaker A: That was great. That would feed me too. And a trip to Iceland and another dance party. Exactly. And to all of it. So thank you so much for doing this and honored to be with you as always.
[00:54:01] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us on Came Here to Love. I hope today's conversation has inspired you to live more fully align with your soul and spread more love in the world. Remember, love is the highest vibration. And when we lead with it, we elevate not just our own lives, but the lives of those around us. If today's episode resonated with you, don't. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who could use a little more love in their life. And as always, keep tuning in for more heart centered conversations that remind us all why we are here to love. Until next time, keep living your light and loving with your whole heart.
